Greg [00:00:00]:
Like so many people, especially for those of us that are in healthcare, we believe that the only way we have the right to be able to educate someone is if we have massive years of experience. But what people are looking for are those that are actually going through it in real time, but are just a couple steps ahead of me. Right? You. This is secrets for success. Welcome to the Secrets for Success podcast. I'm your host, Greg Todd. Thank you all, as always, for joining me. I have a very special guest today.
Greg [00:00:39]:
So this person I've been watching from afar for about four years. About four years I've been lurking, watching, and then I saw you speak at my budy's event and I was like, okay, she's really special. She's really special because she shared her story. And I realized that this was a really authentic person that wasn't trying to position herself as perfect and had this wanderlust way about her. You know what I mean? And so anyways, I said, hey, I dig you. I dig you. And I was like, at some point, I know you're going to be more in my world. So I've just been watching her, and I've been watching her grow and evolve, and now I've really gotten to know her more as one of my clients.
Greg [00:01:29]:
And she's a wonderful human being. And you're going to hear all about how wonderful she is by just hearing her speak. So, Jess, Jenney, thank you so much for being on my podcast.
Jess [00:01:38]:
Thank you so much for having me, Greg, it is an honor.
Greg [00:01:41]:
Well, it's an honor to have you here. It really is. Okay, so why don't we. Let's get the people to know a little bit more about who you are, what you do, kind of your journey, and then we'll kind of go from there.
Jess [00:01:54]:
Sounds good. Yeah, very good.
Greg [00:01:55]:
So tell us.
Jess [00:01:56]:
All right. So I was a travel pt for ten years.
Greg [00:01:59]:
Okay.
Jess [00:02:00]:
But it didn't start that way at first. As a new grad, I started off, as most of us do, in a private outpatient clinic, seeing 20 plus people a day, working 60 hours a week, doing the thing as we all do, overworked, underpaid, bright eyed and bushy tailed and ambitious, ready to hit the ground running as a new grad. And not too long after that burnout ensued. Right.
Greg [00:02:25]:
How long was that for you, by the way?
Jess [00:02:29]:
Burnout? Probably under a year, right? Like ten months, I think by maybe 14, I was transitioning into travel pt.
Greg [00:02:38]:
Okay, so ten months you felt the burnout, and 14 months. So four months later, you're like, all right, I got to figure out another way.
Jess [00:02:50]:
Yeah.
Greg [00:02:50]:
What was the breaking point for you? Do you remember a day or something happening where you're like, screw this ish. I'm done, Ben.
Jess [00:02:58]:
Greg, I wish that it was a better story than this, but honestly, I was very much a homebody myself, and I didn't like change. I didn't like stepping out of my comfort zone, which you might not know now, but it's quite the opposite now because I've practiced it. But in the beginning, I very much wanted to stay in that spot and stay in that location. But my partner at the time really wanted to travel, and so when he graduated, he's like, look, I'm going to travel. Do you want to come? Let's just try it for 13 weeks, and if we don't like it, we can come back. And I figured, okay, fine, I could do anything for 13 weeks. Let's just try it. It can't really be worse than what I'm doing right now, right? And so we did, and off we went.
Jess [00:03:46]:
And we made a lot of mistakes initially and shed a lot of tears and wasted a lot of money and a lot of time and figured out all of the things the hard way as new travelers and struggled.
Greg [00:04:01]:
Right?
Jess [00:04:02]:
We didn't know what questions to ask to keep ourselves out of bad jobs or how to negotiate more or how to find housing. And it was all just very overwhelming initially as a new traveler. And as we did it more and had more assignments, we got better at it. And I realized that there is a system to this, and there are ways that you can prevent the mistakes and the red flags and navigate all of the waters that are travel therapy. And I started getting questions from other people, like, well, how do you do it and where do you start? And there was one person, and then there were three people, and then there were ten people and then 15 people. And I realized, oh, my God, this needs to be a book, right? No, not a book, a blog. This needs to be a blog. I need to share this information with the world.
Jess [00:04:52]:
So I created a blog called Wanderlust pts, specifically for therapists who want to travel and explore the world and live life on their terms. And it's morphed since then into resources, online courses, coaching, consulting, all sorts of things. And I've been able to serve this population on a different level.
Greg [00:05:21]:
Wow.
Jess [00:05:21]:
And it's been awesome.
Greg [00:05:23]:
Okay, so this is really cool. 14 months into being a therapist, you're like, all right, I'm going to try this. You had a little nudge from your then partner, like, all right, we're going to do this. And what's the worst? We go back to this dead end job that we have. Right? Okay, so you go through your first assignment. It looks like you screwed up a lot of things.
Jess [00:05:45]:
So many. Yeah.
Greg [00:05:46]:
All right, so here's my question to you. When you finish that assignment, was there ever a thought. Be honest. Was there ever a thought of saying, we got to go back, this was a nightmare?
Jess [00:05:56]:
No, there wasn't, because it was, oh, we messed up this time. Now we know what to ask.
Greg [00:06:03]:
Wow.
Jess [00:06:03]:
Now we know how to not make those mistakes again so that we can get ourselves in a better position next time.
Greg [00:06:10]:
So even with the mistakes, it was still better than the situation that you were in.
Jess [00:06:15]:
Total, it was a learning experience.
Greg [00:06:16]:
Yeah, it's a learning experience. I think one of the big things is we live in this new era of wealth. And the new era of wealth is not only partnerships, but it is understanding that people want to be educated, but they want to be educated by people that are going through the trenches, that are in the trenches, going through the war. Right. So I personally would not want to be educated about travel therapy from someone that knows how to teach me kinesiology. I want to be educated with travel therapy by someone that literally just went through it. I actually don't even want to be educated with travel therapy by somebody that did travel therapy 14 years ago. Does that make sense?
Jess [00:07:05]:
Yeah. I know where you're going with this, and I love it.
Greg [00:07:07]:
It's so crazy because this is what so many people, especially for those of us that are in healthcare, we believe that the only way we have the right to be able to educate someone is if we have massive years of experience. But what people are looking for are those that are actually going through it in real time, but are just a couple of steps ahead of me, right?
Jess [00:07:31]:
Definitely.
Greg [00:07:32]:
Okay.
Jess [00:07:32]:
Yeah.
Greg [00:07:32]:
So I find that fascinating because it didn't take you long to figure out that, wait a minute, I can help people now, today, the wanderlust PT, which was originally a blog, right? Just a blog. Only today it is courses, it's what else?
Jess [00:07:52]:
Resources, downloadables, webinars, workbooks.
Greg [00:07:59]:
I think this is the secrets for Success podcast. And I think one of the keys to success is what you just said. You were able to acknowledge and be aware enough to realize that, oh my gosh, the situation we just went through is painful. And you realize that, oh my gosh, I actually don't want people to go through this pain. But on the other side of this. This is actually a really cool gig. It's a hell of a lot better than being in some clinic, seeing 29 people a day, seeing people on your pinky, on your toenail. It's so much better than that.
Greg [00:08:36]:
But there are so many things that people are super afraid of, and rightfully so, because you made a lot of those mistakes, correct?
Jess [00:08:45]:
Absolutely. And kind of what you were talking to, talking about in that you don't want to learn about travel therapy from, say, somebody who is teaching you kinesiology. One of the first things I hear from new grads is, well, I can't be a travel therapist because I need to get experience first. Or my professor told me that I shouldn't travel right away because I need experience first. And my first question to them is, has that person ever traveled? Who is telling you this?
Greg [00:09:12]:
All right, I have to be honest. I'm embarrassed to say this, but when I was doing my voluntary hours for physical therapy school, I was doing some hours at a pediatric clinic. And at this Pete's clinic, one of therapists there was a travel therapist, and they were telling me their setup. They were getting their room and board paid for, they got stipend, they were getting food. It was all this stuff. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing, right? And making a pretty good salary. And I remember I was a year out from getting into PD school, and I was like, I want to be a travel ghetto therapist. What a great opportunity to be able to get myself ahead.
Greg [00:10:00]:
And I listened to my professors, and they said, oh, you can't be a travel therapist until you do this, this, and you do this, this, and this, and you got to go work at a hospital, and then you need to work in the rehab department. Then you should do acute and you should go through all these different loopholes, and maybe five years after, then you could be a travel therapist. So I never did travel therapy because I listened to people that were never travel therapists.
Jess [00:10:31]:
And let me tell you the secret about that. Here's the thing. 80% of travel jobs are those same jobs that you had to go through and apply for and work at. 80% of those jobs are seeking of travel jobs, are actually seeking permanent jobs. They're the same jobs that you would be applying for if you were to move to that area and look for a job. And so they want you to like your experience there in hopes, fingers crossed for them, that you sign on permanently with them.
Greg [00:11:02]:
Right.
Jess [00:11:02]:
Majority. Almost all of the jobs that I have worked for have offered me a full time position.
Greg [00:11:08]:
Wow.
Jess [00:11:09]:
So there really is no difference between, quote, travel jobs and perm jobs, right. With that said, whether you're applying for a travel job or whether you're applying for a perm job, you want to make sure it's the right fit for you, especially as a new grad. Right. And so the key with that is just asking the right questions on the interview, knowing what questions to ask, and then knowing what the answers mean so that you keep yourself out of those, quote, bad situations that come up and are the reasons why professors say, well, no, you shouldn't work as a traveler as a new grad because you might get yourself in a bad situation. Well, no, you just have to avoid the bad situations by knowing what questions to ask on the interview and navigating it.
Greg [00:11:54]:
I've heard you talk about this a few different times, and you've talked about these myths that a lot of people have, and I'm realizing that, oh, my gosh, that myth. One of the myths. And I know you have, like, three that you talk about a lot, but one of the myths, I'm like, wow, that cost me tens of thousands of dollars because my first job that I got was an outpatient ortho job, and I took that job because I felt like I couldn't be a travel therapist because some random professor that's never done travel therapy told me that. And I made 39,500 a year. And I'm realizing that, wow, I left so much money on the table and other opportunities, like, I wanted to see other things. I've only been in Florida pretty much our whole life. Florida or go back to, like, that's it. So I'm like, pissed.
Greg [00:12:47]:
All right, so let's just say that I met you.
Jess [00:12:50]:
Yes.
Greg [00:12:50]:
And you were old like me, and you had to tell me what the three myths are.
Jess [00:12:57]:
Yes.
Greg [00:12:58]:
What are they? So everybody understands.
Jess [00:13:01]:
Yes. Okay, so, myth number one, that might keep you from pursuing your dreams, which it did, because they said, well, you can't travel as a new grad. That's number one. You can travel as a new grad. You just have to make sure that it's the right job for you. You do that through the interview. And like I said, 80% of travel jobs are the same jobs that you'd be applying for.
Greg [00:13:18]:
So I can be a new grad and I can be a travel therapist?
Jess [00:13:21]:
Absolutely. You should. Now is the best time, because otherwise, like you said, you get into working in another job, quote, settling down, and all of a sudden, that opportunity has missed you.
Greg [00:13:33]:
Okay. So myth busted. Number one is that new grads can actually be travel therapists.
Jess [00:13:41]:
Yes.
Greg [00:13:41]:
Okay.
Jess [00:13:42]:
Should and can. Absolutely.
Greg [00:13:44]:
All right. So then number two was, well, what if I got sent to a dud of a place?
Jess [00:13:51]:
Yes.
Greg [00:13:51]:
Right.
Jess [00:13:52]:
That's so good. That's the second thing I hear is, well, what if I get sent? They're going to send me to bad places. They're going to send me to bad places. And first off, you don't get sent anywhere. You are completely in control of where you not only apply your job to or put your resume in, you're not only in control of that, but where you interview. You can decide whether you want to take the interview, and you can decide after the interview if you want to go to that place or not. So you are in complete control of deciding whether that is the right job for you or not. And that's why, again, back to the interview being key.
Jess [00:14:29]:
And you want to make sure that you ask all of the questions. Leave no rock unturned so that you know what you're getting yourself into.
Greg [00:14:36]:
I think there was this thought, and I'm just going back to how I felt like, oh, my gosh. Because usually it's, what, like a 13 week whatever. It's like, oh, my gosh. This is going to be a permanent death sentence. So then you just live in fear and you end up not doing it right. Oh, my gosh. I'm so pissed. Okay.
Greg [00:14:51]:
All right. Then number three was another thing that they said. They said that what if you're around piece of crap staff and what if they murder you or something like that? Have you heard that before? Yeah.
Jess [00:15:05]:
So myth number three is that you are going to get treated poorly by staff, right? You're going to come in and they're going to think you're an entitled, snobby mean, oh, the traveler is here, and they're going to treat you poorly. And honestly, that has not been my experience at all. Chances are when you're coming in, you're coming in to help offload the staff. And so they are so grateful that you are there, and the energy that you throw out there is going to be the energy that you get back. Right. So if you walk in there with open arms and you're so grateful that you have this opportunity to work alongside them and learn from them and ask them questions, and that's the energy that you're going to get.
Greg [00:15:48]:
Right.
Jess [00:15:49]:
So that's always been my experience one place. The second place that I showed up to after I didn't quit after my first bad experience of a job, they actually had gift baskets waiting for us and, like, balloons and it was so welcoming and such a wonderful experience. I think we stayed there for almost eleven months.
Greg [00:16:08]:
Wow.
Jess [00:16:08]:
Yeah. In home care. And I'd never worked in home care. I didn't do an internship or clinical in home care either. And so it depends. You got to get yourself in those good situations.
Greg [00:16:21]:
Doesn't it make you think that the reason why this is told to us is that they want us as therapists to live in fear? It has to be. It's like, I want you to be in fear and I want you to be indoctrinated that you have to stay at the same place for the rest of your life.
Jess [00:16:42]:
Imposter syndrome.
Greg [00:16:43]:
Imposter syndrome. Yeah.
Jess [00:16:44]:
So huge, too. And that's like a part of that fear, right? When we come out of school, it's like imposter syndrome and fear and you need to work for somebody else. But, I mean, chiropractors come out of school and they're starting businesses right away. There's none of that. Massage therapists. I don't feel like there is. Do you find any of that?
Greg [00:17:03]:
I mean, not nearly as much as it is for therapists and I don't know because I'm not them, but just knowing that their culture is, you got to go make it happen the minute you get out of school, there's not this plethora of just jobs for you just to kind of stay in. Knowing that most of these places, they're like, look, man, we just want to lock you in. We want to lock you in for as long as possible because they know it's like a little mini prison, you know what I mean? So. Wow, that's absolutely amazing. All right, so today you are not doing travel therapy anymore because you've helped so many people, correct? Right.
Jess [00:17:46]:
Yes.
Greg [00:17:46]:
And you did it for quite a while, but now you're helping people get into travel therapy, and you're basically one of the biggest advisors for travel therapists throughout the country, right?
Jess [00:18:02]:
Yes.
Greg [00:18:03]:
I mean, you are. Come on. Let's just call spade a spade here.
Jess [00:18:06]:
Thank you, Greg.
Greg [00:18:07]:
No, that's so awesome. And I say that because what was your dream situation, which was to be a physical therapist, ended up becoming your nightmare at your first job eleven months later, and then you became a travel therapist. And by the way, that ended up becoming a dream situation for you because you got to go all around the country and do this and do that and what? Okay. But then it's not that. It became a nightmare. But other things happened. So explain the other things.
Jess [00:18:44]:
Other things happen. I think always deep down within me, I have an entrepreneurial spirit. I was always looking for something more. And specifically after being a traveler for a while, I remember writing a journal article that said, like, what now? Something more. Like, there's got to be something more. I want to make a bigger impact. I want to leave a legacy. I want to create something.
Jess [00:19:06]:
I want to serve more people. I literally wrote that journal article, wow. And maybe within a year, wonderlust pts was born.
Greg [00:19:15]:
Wow.
Jess [00:19:16]:
And I only recently had an aha. Moment of like, wow. That was right behind each other. That is what needed to happen in order for me to create something. But your question was around how that came to be and how I came to serve more people in the transition out of travel therapy. So it was Covid. I mean, most people, everybody had to transition in Covid and pivot. And I was a travel PT in Covid.
Jess [00:19:44]:
I already had wonderless pts. It was a side gig for me at the time, but at that moment, I had training in cash based practice in telehealth. I did a lot of training in telehealth under rob binding before that. In 2018. Yeah, in 2018, I was like, telehealth is going to be huge. I want to learn everything there is to know about telehealth. So I took his telehealth residency program, and I learned all of the tech behind it. And I'd also learned about blogging from blogging and online course creation and webinars and email marketing.
Jess [00:20:21]:
And so I had all of these skills on top of physical therapy and a passion to serve more people. And when Covid hit, I said to my list of 3000 Wanderlust pts guys, we can sit back and wait for the jobs to come back, or we can do something about it and we can create businesses of our own because the patients are still out there and they need to be served.
Greg [00:20:48]:
Wow.
Jess [00:20:49]:
And so I said, for those of you who are interested, I want to teach you everything I know about telehealth, email marketing, online course creation, online business. And I want you to find people who you can serve in an online space because it's Covid, right, and start creating jobs for ourselves. So I had, my first cohort was about 20 people. I've since helped maybe closer to 100 therapists move into the online space in a clinical way or online way. And so that morphed a different opportunity for, quote, wanderlust pts or travel therapists. I found that a lot of besides Covid, I found that a lot of travelers, after they're done traveling or they're ready to settle down, they're not comfortable going back to that perm nine to five job with a less than six figure salary. So a lot of them move into, well, what else can I do? You can start a business, and you can create something for yourself and serve more people in the cash based space or else somewhere else. So that has kind of morphed the continuum of wonderlust pts and the growth in a different direction in addition to serving people in the travel therapy space.
Greg [00:22:07]:
I think it comes down to freedom.
Jess [00:22:09]:
Totally.
Greg [00:22:11]:
When you look at you going from being stuck in an outpatient facility and like, okay, this can't be it. Versus now getting your first travel gig, it's freedom. There's a certain level of freedom you unlocked by doing that, but there's different levels to this freedom. There's different levels to it. And so you get to this point where it's like, all right, you know what? I want to settle down for whatever reason. It might be family, it might be this, or, I just don't want to travel anymore. Whatever. But you still want that freedom.
Greg [00:22:46]:
And what you did is you listened, and you listened to people, and you just continued to create new solutions as you were creating them for yourself. It's really good. Smart.
Jess [00:22:58]:
Thank you.
Greg [00:23:02]:
I guess there's a couple more things I want to ask you with regards to the mistakes that travelers make. You talked about the myths. Let's talk about some of the mistakes, and then let's dive into a few other things. So, with regard to the mistakes, I think you said that when travel therapists typically go on an interview, there are mistakes that they make, and they're not asking the right questions. And we know that the quality of the question dictates the quality of the answer. Tell me a little bit more about that. Sure. What's one or two stupid questions that they're asking and one or two really good questions that they should be asking.
Jess [00:23:45]:
Oh, great. Okay, that's good. So questions to ask on the interview or a question that you might ask on the interview is, okay, I'll just use my mistake.
Greg [00:23:59]:
Right. Okay.
Jess [00:23:59]:
My first mistake as an example, the question I asked on the interview was, what is the productivity to a skilled nursing facility? I was a new grad who had worked in an outpatient clinic, seeing 20 plus people a day, documenting four plus units per person. And the answer? At the skilled nursing facility, they said, 90% productivity is our requirement here in the skilled nursing facility. So coming from an outpatient clinic where I was running around between four people and seeing, I was like, oh, easy peasy, no problem. I can do 90% productivity because I have done that at the outpatient clinic. I can do that, no problem.
Greg [00:24:40]:
Yeah.
Jess [00:24:41]:
What I didn't understand, I asked the right question. What I didn't know was what the answer meant. And what the answer was is 90% of billable time that you're in the building in a skilled nursing facility, which is fine if you're sitting in one place and somebody's bringing you your patients and you have a computer to document on, and you're sitting in one spot and serving them there. But when you have to find Mrs. Jones and you don't have a blood pressure cuff that works and you can't do point of care documentation because you have to share computers and work off of a desktop, and they require you to do a 90% productivity, then it's nearly impossible.
Greg [00:25:24]:
Wow.
Jess [00:25:25]:
So I knew what question to ask. I didn't know what the answer meant in that facility, and I didn't even know to ask, am I going to have my own computer to do point of care documentation or do I have to share a computer? Who would have thought, right? So that's a perfect example of, as a travel therapist or as a new grad, even you don't know what you don't know.
Greg [00:25:45]:
Right.
Jess [00:25:45]:
And another example is interviewing at an outpatient job. Somehow I got on the topic once of they told me that I would be treating at the same time I was supposed to be evaluating another patient, overlapping an evaluation with a treatment.
Greg [00:26:01]:
Right.
Jess [00:26:02]:
You wouldn't know to ask that, right. Unless it's happened before. Right. And so those are the things. And then you show up and all of a sudden you're expected to overlap a treatment into an evaluation, and you're like, I've never done this before. How do I do this? So those are the kinds of examples.
Greg [00:26:18]:
Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. When you are talking about recruiters and the mistakes, can you just be honest with me? How many sorry ass recruiters are there out there versus, like, legit good ones? And does it really make a difference?
Jess [00:26:37]:
Yeah, that's a great question. And I'm going to go on the conservative side here and say if recruiters, they mean well, recruiters mean well. But for the ones that haven't been in the industry for a while or are new to it, they don't mean to take advantage of you, but sometimes they just don't know better. And it might get you in a bad position. Got you. So my advice is my mistake number two, most frequent mistake that I see is just going with any recruiter, like the people you met at the career fair, the people that cold called you, the people that your friend who just started a month ago in travel therapy is referring you to but doesn't actually know the right questions to ask or what kinds of things to look out for in recruiting companies. That is mistake number two for sure. So, yes, there is a difference.
Jess [00:27:27]:
There are big companies, there are small companies, there are hundreds of recruiting companies. So navigating and knowing what companies to work with are important. What I recommend is just to go with a recruiting company that is recommended to you by somebody who has been in the industry.
Greg [00:27:45]:
Like a travel PT mentor or something.
Jess [00:27:48]:
Yeah, exactly.
Greg [00:27:51]:
Oh, a mentor. What do I need a travel PT mentor? Because you're playing roulette with recruiters, right?
Jess [00:27:59]:
Yeah.
Greg [00:28:01]:
Okay. Like in sports, when you're a professional athlete, having a really crappy agent can cost you lots and lots and lots of money.
Jess [00:28:12]:
Totally.
Greg [00:28:12]:
Okay. And I look at a recruiter and just correct me if I'm wrong. They're almost like my agent.
Jess [00:28:18]:
Totally.
Greg [00:28:19]:
Right. And so I want to know, who are the good agents out there? Who are the bad agents out there? Who are the ones that are willing to put me wherever I want to be? It's kind of like, also like a real estate agent. Right. Some people will just say, look, man, I just want them to buy the house so I can get the commission. But there's like, really good real estate agents. Like, I want to get them the right house.
Jess [00:28:38]:
Yeah. And they care about you and they want you to get you the best deal. Exactly. And that's the difference. That is a perfect other real estate.
Greg [00:28:45]:
Well, I think that's one of the things, as I've gotten to know more and more of what you do, I'm like, that's what you're doing for people. You're like, basically being. You're teaching them, hey, these are the good agents. These are the ones that you got to be careful of. And you're saving people so much heartache. And we know that people that have a lot of heartache in our profession, a lot of times, if the heartache is bad enough, they'll leave it.
Jess [00:29:11]:
Yes.
Greg [00:29:11]:
And for no reason. For no reason. So anyways, that's awesome. You're awesome. Is there anything else you want to say with regards to that before I say a few parting words?
Jess [00:29:23]:
No. It's been great chatting with you. Thanks for having me.
Greg [00:29:26]:
Greg, I think there's something that I want to say about you. What I have loved about you from me getting to come into your world about three and a half years ago, is your resilience. Your resilience. We've talked about your story, and there's some parts of the story that we haven't fully talked about. But what I do love is you have been dead set. Once you've made that decision from leaving that outpatient place. You have made the decision that you want to basically be free. And it's looked different.
Greg [00:30:08]:
And I know that you've had obstacles along the way, and you have not let that stop you on the journey of you becoming free. And I've watched that, and your resiliency is extremely appealing to a lot of us and inspires us and it inspires me. So I want to say I'm impressed.
Jess [00:30:27]:
Thank you.
Greg [00:30:27]:
All right. I want you to continue to help travel therapists, and I really believe that your journey is going to continue to move you in directions that we don't even know. I just know that you're a servant and you're willing to help people, so continue to do it.
Jess [00:30:40]:
Thank you, Greg.
Greg [00:30:41]:
I'm really proud of you. All right, where can people find you?
Jess [00:30:44]:
Wanderlustpts.com and on Instagram @wanderlustpts, anything wonder on Facebook. All over y'all.
Greg [00:30:52]:
She's just wandering and lusting, I guess. Wanderlustpt. All right. Thank you so much for being on episode, Jess.
Jess [00:30:58]:
Thank you, Greg.
Greg [00:30:59]:
All right.
