Greg [00:00:00]:
Pelvic floor health. How do you explain to patients on how that affects their overall body health? Or is it just its own thing?
Tara Sullivan [00:00:09]:
It's not. It's the center of the body. I mean, it's. It's so important. You know, there's load transfer that passes through when we're walking. There's muscle memory from trauma. There's, you know, it's. It really is the center of the body.
Kylie Austin [00:00:24]:
Yeah. And really, most healthcare providers are not looking at the holistic picture. And so you may go to your OB be, and they're like, oh, well, you're good after six weeks, or whatever. Or you may be looking at another issue with a different doctor or this. And that is happening, and not one person is sitting down with you and saying, you know, how are your bowels? How is your bladder? How is all of this other things functioning? And that's what we pride ourselves on, because we're going to treat someone from mind to body, the entirety of that person. This is Secrets for Success.
Greg [00:01:06]:
Welcome to the Secrets for Success podcast. I'm your host, Greg Todd. Thank you as always, my friends, for joining me. So I've had these two wonderful ladies on the podcast earlier. I wanted to do a second episode, and I'm going to call this Rapid Fire of Value. And so here's kind of what the theme is. The theme is that I bring value to people in the healthcare space, but the reality is that the things I'm teaching them is long them they bring value to. They're people.
Greg [00:01:33]:
So, Tara and Kylie, the owners of Mind to Body Healing, welcome back to the podcast.
Tara Sullivan [00:01:42]:
Thank you.
Greg [00:01:44]:
Can you tell the people who it is that you bring value to in your world?
Tara Sullivan [00:01:49]:
Yeah. So we're pelvic floor physical therapists. So we bring value to people who need pelvic floor therapy, which includes bowel, bladder, sexual dysfunction, chronic pelvic pain, dudes and chicks, everyone. Anyone with a pelvis.
Greg [00:02:05]:
Wow.
Tara Sullivan [00:02:05]:
Any age, any gender.
Greg [00:02:07]:
All right, awesome. So can I throw a bunch of questions at you and just. Okay, question number one is, why am I still experiencing pelvic pain a year after childbirth? Why?
Tara Sullivan [00:02:21]:
Unfortunately, probably because they weren't referred to rehab after a very traumatic event, which is childbirth.
Kylie Austin [00:02:30]:
Yeah, exactly. We are very passionate that every person postpartum should have some type of pelvic floor therapy, an initial evaluation of some sort, just to make sure that they have the additional support that they need, that we examine any injuries that may have occurred during the birthing process or before the birthing process, and to make sure that they are healing well.
Tara Sullivan [00:02:55]:
Vaginal or C section? Doesn't matter.
Greg [00:02:56]:
It doesn't matter. Okay, so let's stay on the childbirth theme a little bit. Is it normal for women to leak a little bit after childbirth? Is that normal? Is that something that should be addressed or what?
Tara Sullivan [00:03:10]:
So we don't like the word normal, but we do say it is common to leak after childbirth, but it is not normal in the sense that you have to live with it.
Greg [00:03:20]:
Gotcha. Okay.
Kylie Austin [00:03:21]:
It's been so normalized for us in as a society to say leaking is normal and okay. And we to as women post giving birth to just accept that as something that happens. And we're here to say that that's not the case.
Greg [00:03:39]:
Gotcha. All right, so you're saying pelvic floor therapy can help Definitely after childbirth. How about intimacy issues? What do you say?
Tara Sullivan [00:03:48]:
Absolutely. Whether it's they're having pain with intercourse, we even do sexual counseling. So if they don't have the desire.
Kylie Austin [00:03:58]:
Or relationship issues, which is very common after having a baby, I mean, you have this whole other human to take care of.
Tara Sullivan [00:04:06]:
They're in survival mode.
Kylie Austin [00:04:07]:
Yes, exactly. So there's a lot of demands on the mother, and making sure that paying with sex is not part of that is our job.
Greg [00:04:18]:
I've heard this from people before, and they've said, I have tried exercises, but nothing is working for me. So what are they doing wrong? And are all exercises equal?
Tara Sullivan [00:04:32]:
Well, that's exactly it is that exercise isn't even always the answer. Which I think, as a physical therapist in general, that's grilled into our head. You have to exercise everything to get better. But a lot of times when people are super overactive and have a lot of pelvic pain, they actually need to take it easy and not exercise first. And so it could be that they're either one not a good candidate for that specific type of exercise, or they're doing the exercise wrong biomechanically.
Kylie Austin [00:05:03]:
Yeah. So I don't think that a regular orthopedic therapist would prescribe an exercise without testing that muscle group first. Okay. And so if we're just giving out exercises for people with pelvic pain or pelvic issues, and we're not assessing the actual pelvic floor muscles themselves, we're doing them a disservice.
Greg [00:05:25]:
Okay.
Tara Sullivan [00:05:26]:
And they could get worse.
Greg [00:05:27]:
You all work with a lot of moms, right? And I'm assuming you work with a lot of busy moms.
Kylie Austin [00:05:32]:
Oh, yeah.
Greg [00:05:33]:
Okay. So when they come to you in say, I don't have the time. Like, how do you help them navigate through finding the time to be able to basically work on their pelvic floor?
Tara Sullivan [00:05:46]:
Yeah. Incorporate it into their life. Not create a program that's 30 minutes every single day, but when they're nursing their child or when they're.
Kylie Austin [00:05:56]:
Yeah, we need to make it functional for these people who, like myself, I had twins, so I'm. I'm newborn twins, carrying them around. And I had. Had a C section and they said, oh, don't lift anything heavy. I literally have twins. What am I supposed to do? You know? And you're breastfeeding and you're doing all the things, and then you, You. There is demands on you in your everyday life. Right.
Kylie Austin [00:06:24]:
And so we are, as pelvic floor physical therapists, going and making sure that we are able to meet or they are able to meet those demands of their everyday life. So we're making all of our treatment functional to them in their world and what they need to be doing every day.
Greg [00:06:42]:
Okay. Pelvic floor health. How do you explain to patients on how that affects their overall body health? Or is it just its own thing?
Tara Sullivan [00:06:52]:
It's not. It's the center of the body. I mean, it's. It's so important. You know, our. There's load transfer that passes through when we're walking. There's muscle memory from trauma. There's, you know, it's.
Tara Sullivan [00:07:05]:
It really is the center of the body.
Kylie Austin [00:07:07]:
Yeah. And really, most healthcare providers are not looking at the holistic picture. And so you may go to your OB and they're like, oh, well, you're good after six weeks or whatever. Or you may be looking at another issue with a different doctor or this and that is happening. And not one person is sitting down with you and saying, you know, how are your bowels? How is your bladder? How is all of this other things functioning? And that's what we pride ourselves on because we're going to treat someone from mind to body, the entirety of that person.
Greg [00:07:40]:
That's why you're called mind to body.
Kylie Austin [00:07:43]:
Wow.
Greg [00:07:44]:
I didn't even know. Dang. Okay, then you did that very well. Okay. So I'm just thinking of when I go to the dentist or when I have a problem and my dentist like, oh, you've got this problem. There are certain things, you're like, hey, you need to take care of this, because long term, this is what's going to happen. And in my mind, I'm like, all right, I'll deal with that later. And then there are certain times where it's like, oh, my gosh, I need to get this, this tooth out or whatever.
Greg [00:08:16]:
Now, what do you say to clients that are, you know, that whatever they have is going to affect them long term? What's the conversation that you're typically ha. You know, having?
Tara Sullivan [00:08:30]:
I think we usually talk about quality of life, you know, like, how is whatever it is you're doing affecting your quality of life?
Greg [00:08:37]:
Gotcha.
Tara Sullivan [00:08:37]:
If you, if you have to go pee 20 times a day and that's annoying you and it's getting in the way of your work, then let's talk about why you're going pee 20 times a day. Because it really comes down to, like, what are you willing to accept and what are you. What do you really want to change?
Greg [00:08:54]:
Gotcha. Okay.
Kylie Austin [00:08:55]:
And I really wish that pelvic health and pelvic floor therapy was like going to the dentist. And we gotta check up every so often because unfortunately, your pelvic floor muscles, you're not seeing them every day and you're not realizing what's going on in there. Not many people are connected to that part of their body whatsoever. And so when we do that checkup and we do the evaluation, we're able to reconnect you with the, with your pelvic floor muscles. And, And I actually experience a lot of time that people will come in and they, maybe they're, you know, having this symptom or this symptom, but they're not really putting all the pieces together. And then when I do the initial evaluation, they're like, whoa, I didn't even know that was going on with my pelvic floor. And they didn't. They accepted leakage as normal or they accepted going to the bathroom every 20 minutes normal.
Kylie Austin [00:09:49]:
And they didn't even realize that there was something going on. Intern family that is going to affect you in the future.
Greg [00:09:55]:
Right. You know, the next question I was going to ask you, I'm here. Like, I think I know the answer is going to be yes because of something that has happened to me. But I'm going to just ask you all so you can tell everybody else. Can pelvic floor issues lead to other health problems?
Kylie Austin [00:10:10]:
Absolutely they can.
Greg [00:10:12]:
You know what I was thinking of? So in 20. 20. 2021. Yeah, it's wrong. Yeah. Like, I was under a lot of stress. Remember I was telling you that. I was like, I had a really, really big mastermind, like 100 and something people.
Greg [00:10:27]:
Da, da, da. And that. And by the way, I had so many people in my world, and I like, Wasn't sleeping well. You know, I wasn't sleeping good at all. And I. And what was waking me up was I was going to the bathroom all the time.
Kylie Austin [00:10:42]:
You need us.
Greg [00:10:43]:
So I was going to that all the time. I was like, like, I'm talking. I'm talking, like, once every 45 minutes. So I'm here. Like, I'm going to ask. I was like, oh, my gosh, as you're telling me this, I'm like. And you're saying your pelvic floor is messed up. Da, da, da.
Greg [00:11:00]:
And I wasn't getting good sleep. Yeah, Wasn't getting good sleep. And like, I didn't have an oura ring or anything like that. But I'm looking now. I can actually sleep through the night for the most part. I still think that maybe I need to, because sometimes I'll wake up once or twice. And I heard that I shouldn't be waking up at all. But I'm realizing that, wow, when you have pelvic floor problems, it can lead to other health issues.
Kylie Austin [00:11:22]:
Yeah, but. And many men are in the same situation. And either men or female, male or female, they're going to a doctor or a urologist or a specialist that will say, like, okay, let's go the surgical route.
Greg [00:11:36]:
Right.
Kylie Austin [00:11:36]:
Or that's like, immediately scare them with like, oh, well, you must have prostate issues.
Greg [00:11:42]:
Right.
Kylie Austin [00:11:42]:
And they're like, oh, my goodness, and I must have to have this surgery. And then they're never even directed into the world of pelvic floor therapy, which just blows my mind. And we can actually help.
Tara Sullivan [00:11:55]:
I think the medical community wants to blame the organ because they understand the organs better. They can remove them or do something to them. And it's like, actually, it's the muscle and it's your habits and your.
Greg [00:12:07]:
Yeah, that's interesting. Someone's giving birth when it's too late to start.
Tara Sullivan [00:12:16]:
Never.
Greg [00:12:17]:
Okay.
Tara Sullivan [00:12:18]:
20 years, 30 years later, you got a C section scar that still kind of bothers you, or you still feel a little pressure when you do a lift. Or it's probably all pelvic floor. And we can still. Still treated.
Kylie Austin [00:12:34]:
It's never too late. But I definitely advocate for starting even before you have birth. Give birth. So you. You're starting therapy with a pelvic floor therapist. Ahead of that. This major event in your life, just like an athlete would prepare with a physical therapist or a trainer ahead of time for a marathon, is very similar, I'd say, to that experience. And then after that marathon, whether if you, you know, you rolled your ankle or you, you know, you did something to your body, injury wise.
Kylie Austin [00:13:08]:
Same thing happens with the C section or tearing or something happening to you during that traumatic or with that birthing experience. And then you need someone to help you through that injury afterwards. But we usually see them about six weeks postpartum when the clear, the check clearance has gone through.
Tara Sullivan [00:13:28]:
We want the tissues to heal, so we like the six to eight week mark. But as soon as the MD clears them to have intercourse, they should be coming to us. And then you can really assess their tissue and their muscles because oftentimes they go to the doctor and they don't even get an exam after they give birth. They're just like, how you feeling? Do you want birth control? Okay, go on your way. So when they come to us, we actually look at the tissue, assess the muscles, and a lot of the times I'll say no. No, what? I don't actually think you should have intercourse. I think you should hold off a couple more weeks. You're still healing, you're still inflamed.
Tara Sullivan [00:14:04]:
So we, we recommend six to eight weeks post op or post.
Greg [00:14:10]:
Post.
Kylie Austin [00:14:10]:
Postpartum.
Greg [00:14:11]:
Oh, postpartum. Okay. Core strength, pelvic floor and pelvic health. What's the link between the two? I, I'll hit you with that one.
Kylie Austin [00:14:20]:
If I'm only because I'm obsessed with it. But yes, there is a, a complete link between core streng, pelvic floor strength. Only because your pelvic floor and your core are literally connected. Like everything's connected, obviously. But you're going to have to utilize your core to support your pelvic floor. And the opposite is true. If your pelvic floor is not mobile and making sure that it's working correctly in coordination with your diaphragm, then you're really not getting the full effect of your core and the way it's supposed to work with breathing or with lifting or with just everyday activity. And then you experience some pelvic floor issues like leakage or prolapse or pain and things like that.
Kylie Austin [00:15:06]:
So both of those things need to be working and mobile and correctly put together coordinated so that you are healthy overall.
Greg [00:15:16]:
Okay, can you guys tell me if I do a good job with this? So, so if we're talking about this, is this the pelvic floor down here? Is this the diaphragm up here? Is this the abs here? This is the back here. Is that good?
Kylie Austin [00:15:28]:
Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah. You and you have four lay layers of the core, so like all of them have to be working in conjunction with each other. And as your diaphragm moves up and down, your. Your pelvic floor has to do the same, so.
Greg [00:15:41]:
Gotcha. Okay, I think we got it. Okay, so now, I'm sure when people come into your practice, especially when it's pain with sex and, you know, it's always tough conversations. When you guys are talking to people, are you coaching them on how to have these tough conversations with their partner?
Tara Sullivan [00:16:01]:
Absolutely.
Greg [00:16:02]:
And any advice and tips for anybody listening?
Tara Sullivan [00:16:06]:
Well, we actually encourage them to bring their partner with them. That way, the partner can. You know, a lot of times our patients are blamed. It's in your head, or you're just not relaxing, or you have a low pain tolerance, or it's something you, you, you. And if the partner can come in there with them and hear us explain, actually, this is anatomical. This is structural. This is functional, mechanical, whatever it is. And it's not them.
Tara Sullivan [00:16:37]:
And they need treatment. It's a lot easier for them to discuss when they leave.
Greg [00:16:42]:
Gotcha. Okay.
Kylie Austin [00:16:43]:
And then we work our way up to having the ability for them to work together at home to make sex pleasurable or to make sure that there's safety and there's security and no pain with that.
Greg [00:16:59]:
All right, I might trigger something here. So why aren't Kegels enough?
Kylie Austin [00:17:05]:
You're triggering me.
Tara Sullivan [00:17:07]:
I'm gonna give you an example. All right, so flex your bicep. All right, so imagine this is your pelvic floor, and you're walking around like this all day because your bicep's so tight. Try to stretch it. You can't. You can't relax? Nope. So you're just walking around like this?
Greg [00:17:23]:
Yeah.
Tara Sullivan [00:17:23]:
And then I said, well, Greg, all you need to do is Kegels in your scenario right now, I said, just take a weight and do some bicep curls.
Greg [00:17:33]:
That'd be stupid, right? Yeah.
Tara Sullivan [00:17:35]:
Yeah. And so if you don't know where your muscle is in that length, that range of motion, that full length ratio, then you don't know if you should be doing Kegels or not. And most of the time, generally speaking, our rule of thumb is if you have any pain at all, I would not start with Kegels. And then also, the research shows that, you know, maybe you are a good candidate for kegels, but 40% of people don't do it right when they're just told how to do it. And 25% of them are doing urinary incontinence promotion techniques. They're actually doing it so wrong that they're gonna, they're reversing.
Greg [00:18:16]:
They're doing. Yeah, yeah. Reverse health. Wow. Okay. I know you guys are helping with people beyond their pelvic floor issues, and you're helping a lot of postpartum moms. So what would you say to someone listening right now that wants to feel confident in their body again? What, what, what advice, counsel.
Tara Sullivan [00:18:35]:
You'd give them self love and patience. And I think I, I just remember thinking, like, to let that idea go of what you used to be and try to get back to that and accept that you have a new body. And it might even be better than it was before, or it might be a little bit different than it was before, but it's still so strong. It went through such a powerful experience and that's my biggest thing with the self image, 100%.
Kylie Austin [00:19:12]:
So, like, I literally had twins. And so it's, it's just amazing what our bodies can do. And for a woman to, after giving birth, immediately think, oh, well, my body isn't the same as it was before. It's not supposed to be, and it's okay. And it actually should be celebrated. Like, how amazing is that that you created a human in your body and then we're able to safely, like, bring that to life.
Greg [00:19:43]:
Right.
Kylie Austin [00:19:44]:
You know, and so there's so much gratuity there that we need to be grateful of, like, of our bodies and really mindful of how we speak to ourselves and make sure that we are taking the steps to self care with either, you know, a pelvic floor therapist or someone to help you through that journey. And you need to surround yourself with support, support and as a team that will help you and people who will lift you up.
Greg [00:20:12]:
So after you had twins, do you feel as, like you're. And, and, and I know you've, you've, you know, had. Had a child as well. Do you feel like there is this process of reconnecting with your body?
Kylie Austin [00:20:25]:
Oh, yeah, 100%, yeah.
Tara Sullivan [00:20:26]:
I felt like all my organs were pushed out of the way for like, the first year and I couldn't, you know, I couldn't identify with my gut or my pelvic floor therapist.
Kylie Austin [00:20:37]:
It's something that we're not really prepared for beforehand that like, literally your body stretched so much that the actual neural connection is not there. Same. And so when you're just forced postpartum and you're just still recovering from all of that, like the, the neurons themselves have to reconnect.
Greg [00:20:56]:
Right.
Kylie Austin [00:20:56]:
And so there's a lot of process to that. And some people never get there because we just are like, opal, we got to go take that care of those children. Right? And so we. We really focus on that within the clinic, and we make sure that you're. You're breathing correctly and that you're reconnecting with your core, especially because it's been put such a strain on. There's things like diastasis recti abdominis that will, like, continue to. Can continue to become an issue with people who are not doing that therapy right after childbirth.
Greg [00:21:31]:
Like so many patients, I'm sure that you all are seeing heal differently.
Tara Sullivan [00:21:36]:
Oh, yeah.
Greg [00:21:37]:
Is. Is there. Is there a reason why. I mean, obviously everybody's got a different human that's FL inside of them, but is there certain things where it's like, you know what? This is why this person's really struggling with their body healing? Is that.
Kylie Austin [00:21:53]:
Absolutely, yeah.
Tara Sullivan [00:21:55]:
I mean, some of it is genetics, like, if you have Ehlers Danlos syndrome or something, that already affects your connective tissue, so you genetically are kind of prone to a little bit more complications. And then the birthing experience itself, like how long you were pushing, how long you were in labor, what position you were in, you know, all of that makes it big difference on the recovery process as well. And then just the emotional and mental support you're getting as well, and the.
Kylie Austin [00:22:27]:
Physical support as well, because the. You want to make sure that your body is well prepared. And so some of those people who have already had a journey with their own health issues before pregnancy, those are still going to be there, you know, and we need to make sure that we're. We're the most fit that we can be and the most well prepared, bodily wise to be able to carry and go through the birthing process.
Greg [00:22:51]:
Do you guys. I noticed social media has changed a lot with regards to talking about pelvic health issues. Do you still notice that clients are embarrassed or is now not as taboo? Because I feel like y'all are talking about it and walking around with the vulvas everywhere by your. Your dongs and whatnot. But, like, how. How do people. There's a lot of people that are timid about this stuff. How do you help them overcome the embarrassment of their pelvic health issues?
Tara Sullivan [00:23:22]:
By being that way, by being so comfortable with it. You know, I remember I had a patient, and this is early in my career, too, and I was talking to him about his prostate and his scrotum and his penis, and he said, well, you just say penis like you would say Radio. It just, I'm trying out your mouth and I'm like, I don't use just a body part like anywhere else. Like if you're uncomfortable, if you're embarrassed, if you don't, if you struggle over the words and you know, then they're gonna feel embarrassed. You have to create that safe, confident space.
Kylie Austin [00:23:52]:
Yeah, it's really important to verbalize that and be able to feel comfortable. Like she said about, about talking about these issues because they're just so important to people. And, and unfortunately we see that a lot of medical providers are almost causing more trauma with the way that they talk about those things. Like people are, you know, put on to like that they're guilty with certain things and that they're making up these issues or that it's all in their head or things like that. So they're, they're actually experiencing more trauma with talking to their providers and we cannot let that happen.
Greg [00:24:30]:
Right, right, right. Wow. Take me through your first visit with someone. So somebody comes into your office, like what's, what, what could they expect with the first visit?
Tara Sullivan [00:24:42]:
Yeah, number one, we're going to have as long of a time that they need to just talk. That's our number one thing. If we don't even get to an exam, that's great. They needed that time to talk because very rarely has someone just sat down and looked them in the eye and said, tell me from the beginning, what's your story?
Greg [00:25:01]:
Right.
Tara Sullivan [00:25:01]:
And we really do want to know. You can learn the most from your patients, so listen to their story. And we do that for, I mean, sometimes an hour, but for at least a good 20, 30 minutes on average. They're going to tell us everything that they're experiencing and feeling and what they've been through. And then, and then with the initial.
Kylie Austin [00:25:24]:
Evaluation, our main objective, with their consent of course, is the internal examination. And so we look externally for any like hormonal changes. We check a few things externally, but if you're really working with someone who knows their stuff, like we said, this person would do an internal examination of the pelvic floor muscles. And on females that looks like a vaginal examination with one glove finger and water based lubricant, checking the muscles for pain, tension, tightness as well as strength, any prolapse symptoms, things like that. With males it looks like the same thing, but rectally. And so we're doing the internal work and then at that time, most of the time with our first patient visit, we're able to start treatment right away. And so the treatment manual treatment looks very similar to, like trigger point release techniques, things like that. We can even assess abdominal work.
Kylie Austin [00:26:22]:
Different things that have to happen, whatever are like our physical therapy skills allow us to do during that time with you. We do. And then, of course, we come up with a plan of care for you and we explain our healing method as well as, like, give you right away patient education that works. Because people, some of us, some of our patients come in and have never even seen what a pelvic floor muscle is. So we show them, we give them a thorough explanation of the exam as well as all the pelvic floor muscles and their purposes and what we do and all of that, all within the first visit.
Greg [00:27:02]:
Okay. I'm sure in the first visit, a lot of times people are trying to find out how they can regain control over their pelvic floor, their body on a whole. What are you all telling them?
Tara Sullivan [00:27:18]:
That you can.
Kylie Austin [00:27:20]:
There's hope.
Tara Sullivan [00:27:20]:
That there's hope. Yeah. Our motto in our clinic is that healing begins with hope. And that's why we want to spend that much time with them and give them that one on one. Because when they leave feeling hopeful, they leave feeling better. And they are going to be compliant, they're going to listen, and they're going to show up and be motivated to get better, and we can help them get better.
Greg [00:27:47]:
Okay. I love it. Can I ask you guys a few more? Is that cool? Okay. How do you prevent this in the future? Y'all know I talk about, so one thing to get to the top, but then how do I stay at the top? How can I prevent pelvic health or pelvic floor issues in the future?
Tara Sullivan [00:28:05]:
I think everything in moderation. Like, we teach a lot about lifestyle and diet and habits and how that affects our bowel and our bladder and our pelvic floor. And so I think balance and listening to your body and not over exercising, not over drinking coffee, not over drinking alcohol. You know, all of the. Just the 80, 20 rule or whatever. Just balance, I think is key.
Kylie Austin [00:28:31]:
Yeah. And for me, like, I see so many patients that are really saying, asking the same thing. And I feel like if you are someone who, like, has like a neck ache all the time, like they're stiff in the neck and things like that. There's so many patients out there, people out there that are just chronically, like, overstressed, over anxious, there's tension in their body and it shows up maybe in their neck, shows up wherever, but a lot of the time it's in their pelvic floor, they don't even know. So my biggest thing for that is just like. For in general, like, are we doing deep breathing? Breathe. Breathing, yeah. Are you doing meditation? Are you taking care of yourself? In mind to body fully.
Greg [00:29:17]:
Love it. What are. What are the myths? You know, I'm sure there's all these myths about postpartum that you just want to dispel right now.
Kylie Austin [00:29:25]:
Oh, gosh.
Tara Sullivan [00:29:25]:
Oh, gosh. Well, postpartum, that you have to live with it. I would say, number one, like, oh, whatever it is. Well, I leak when I jump. But I had kids, so anything that they're experiencing that they have to live with. I think that's the biggest myth, definitely, that Kegels is all we do.
Greg [00:29:44]:
Right.
Tara Sullivan [00:29:45]:
That would be a really boring job to just go there and teach people how to do Kegels all day long. Like, most of the time, we're like, don't do those.
Kylie Austin [00:29:53]:
Those are the two biggest, I think, for what you kind of brought up is, like, the exercise portion. Like, people just think, okay, I finished post, I've given birth, and, like, there's this person online or this influencer, and they are just giving me some exercises that says, oh, go do this after birth, and you'll be okay, and you'll be fixed, or you'll go back to before your body was having a baby or whatnot. And that's just not the way that I would approach it personally. And I think that you need to be with a professional provider who knows their stuff. And there are so many options, of course, out there nowadays, but there. But you just have to be careful, because someone who has just given birth and said, oh, well, look at my abs. It's not necessarily the same, like, method that will work for you.
Greg [00:30:43]:
Right?
Tara Sullivan [00:30:44]:
Yeah. And you. You have to have an internal exam to really have pelvic floor therapy. Pelvic floor therapy is not just an extension of ortho. It is its own specialty.
Greg [00:30:55]:
Got you.
Tara Sullivan [00:30:55]:
And you can't just exercise a pelvic floor in the gym and get results. You really have to see a specialist.
Greg [00:31:06]:
Let's talk about results. What's the timeframe that you usually say to see progress? I'm not saying to fix the whole thing, but to see progress. What do you usually tell your patients.
Tara Sullivan [00:31:16]:
On how long I mean progress? Just to notice a difference? I'm hoping they're noticing a difference after every session. But what I train my students and mentees is that within the four to six, six sessions, the patient should be noticeably saying, yes, this is working.
Greg [00:31:35]:
Gotcha.
Tara Sullivan [00:31:36]:
And then depending, of course, on the history and severity, I mean, on average, we say 12 weeks, but it could be way less or way more, depending on what's going on.
Kylie Austin [00:31:45]:
All right, well, we have a very specific healing method that we've both created together. And yes, depending on where you fall within the spectrum and the phases, we have three parts to this. If you fall within the first phase, it's going to be somewhere between probably around 12 weeks. Okay. And then so like she said, the. If you're in phase one, which is our down training phase, you're really focusing on lengthening those muscles. And muscle length, as you know, takes about six to eight weeks to actually stay or make a big effect. Right.
Kylie Austin [00:32:22]:
And so we're using our ortho brains, whatever. So you need to make sure that you're fully lengthening that muscle before we're really being able. Able to activate it correctly. Right. And so then once we're done with that and we're really develop those everyday skills, those bladder habits, those bowel habits that will help them within their. Their longevity of their lives, then we're going on to phase two. And then we're really teaching them the Kegels, the making sure that they know the coordination and they're being able to activate correctly and teaching them the skills within that. Just the pelvic floor muscles themselves.
Kylie Austin [00:33:00]:
And then we have this awesome phase which I love is phase three, when it's functional fitness. And beyond that, you're getting back to where you want to be and even more.
Greg [00:33:11]:
Right.
Kylie Austin [00:33:12]:
Like, so that didn't before. Yeah, we need to be. We need to be more active. We need to be, especially women. We need to be lifting weights in the gym. We need to be able to do that safely and put all of that pelvic health knowledge that we gained in the last eight weeks or so to good use in a functional way.
Greg [00:33:31]:
Yeah, that's awesome.
Tara Sullivan [00:33:32]:
And I think. Sorry, one more thing is, I think it's really important that patients understand that healing isn't linear. It's not like every single day you're going to feel better until you wake up and you're 100% right. You know, like that project, that trajectory should be that you're getting better, but you might have a day where you're like, oh, my gosh, I feel like I'm back to work started, but you're not. And so reminding them that, you know, you're going to have ups and downs, but we're going to get you there.
Greg [00:34:00]:
I love halfway through the podcast, you Both talked about your model, which is hope for your clients. So I guess that's my final question is talk to the people right now that are listening to this, and they're like, I want to fully recover my body, and I know it might look different, but I just want to feel whole again. So is there hope for them to feel fully whole even though it might look different, but for them to get their body back?
Tara Sullivan [00:34:32]:
Absolutely.
Greg [00:34:32]:
Yeah.
Kylie Austin [00:34:33]:
There is.
Tara Sullivan [00:34:33]:
Holy.
Kylie Austin [00:34:34]:
Every day we see people who are going through something with their pelvis, and we are able to provide them results. And from the people who are the hopeless. And I could include myself in one of those patients, Literally. I was told by every doctor out there that it's all in your head. It's all you. There's something wrong with you, but nobody's going to figure it out. And I went to a pelvic health pt, and they said, there's hope, and immediately actually felt better because of that one visit. But I did actually get better because of pelvic floor therapy.
Kylie Austin [00:35:14]:
It's awesome. So it. And we see it every single day, right? Every single day. And if you don't leave with hope in your heart after our first visit.
Tara Sullivan [00:35:24]:
Then you can do it.
Kylie Austin [00:35:26]:
Yeah, exactly.
Tara Sullivan [00:35:27]:
And really, anyone, if. If you leave there thinking, I don't know if this is going to work, then we didn't do our job. Because we can help.
Greg [00:35:36]:
Right? Thank you. Wow. This has been amazing. And you all know your stuff. Man, I'm learning so much. I truly. I. I think I could be a.
Greg [00:35:46]:
I think I could be a pepper guffy if I know I'm not that. But, man, your next life, I feel like I'm learning a lot. Thank you all for being on the podcast. I appreciate you.
Tara Sullivan [00:35:58]:
Thank you.
Kylie Austin [00:35:58]:
All right.
